Friday, June 11, 2010

Not of This World

John 15:18-19 “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you;

Earlier this week, a liberal Christian friend emailed me the following article posted on CNN health; “Kids of lesbians have fewer behavioral problems, study suggests” I responded with the following question: “what do you think this tells us?” He replied; “Is raising a child in a gay household ideal? Of course not, for a number of reasons … it is not unlike raising a child with interracial parents. The child or children can be subject to teasing at school, etc., etc. It is just not a societal "norm." With that being said, Would it be better for the child to be raised by two parents who actually planned to have the child, have the money to properly provide for the child and provide a loving environment for the child by parents who happen to be gay or would it be better to have a child grow up with heterosexual parents but the household was abusive, the children were not planned (or even wanted), etc., etc. I think the study was saying that, lesbianism (I think that is a word) aside, in the households that were studied, the parents were more likely to have planned for the children, been able to provide for the children, etc., etc., and that was a more contributory factor to their well adjusted behavior than the sexuality of the parents. Hope that answers your question.”

I responded with: "I have clients that are lesbians that appear to be very exceptional parents, exceptional citizens, and are good friends. And I have asked myself this question many times. So anything is possible. But I would think the question for you and I, as Christians should be: Would raising a child in a gay home most likely lead the child towards or away from the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and towards amorality? In most cases, I am convinced it would lead away from Christ. So therefore, I would not advise it. Conditions could be better with the first group obviously, if the only consideration is raising a healthy child, but when the belief system of the child is considered, some things become more important than others. Should we promote the immigration of one group of people over another, is also a good question? It is never desirable for children to be with abusive or amoral parents, gay or straight. Unfortunately, we have little control over the second group in your comparison and society suffers the consequences. The comparison to an interracial marriage is not even a valid comparison, contrary to what gays would contend. Amoral = there is no right or wrong. A big problem in America today is that this idea of neutral morality (there is no right or wrong) has been pushed and validated by modern athiestic secular society."

My friend answered: I am not convinced that being raised by gay parents would lead a child away from Christ and toward amorality. I believe there are several references to homosexuality throughout the New Testament. They were referenced as Eunuchs as opposed to gay and lesbian. The subject is talked about extensively in Matthew 19:11-12 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. “For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.” God made us all and simply because you were born gay or lesbian does not automatically make you amoral.

To that I replied: This definition does not even come close to defining homosexuals. If this actually even remotely described the lifestyle as we know it, or the context of the verse you quoted was referring to gays, I would have to agree with you, since it is Jesus speaking."
But neither the dictionary or the Bible supports your conclusions:

WIKI: A eunuch is a castrated man; usually one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences. The term usually refers to those castrated (without their consent) in order to perform a specific social function, as was common historically in many societies. The earliest records for intentional castration to produce eunuchs are from the Sumerian city of Lagash in the twenty-first century BC. Over the millennia since, they have performed a wide variety of functions in many different cultures such as: courtiers or equivalent domestics, treble singers, religious specialists, government officials, military commanders, and guardians of women or harem servants. In some translations of ancient texts, individuals identified as eunuchs sometimes historically included men who were impotent with women, as well as those who were celibate.

On the other hand, the Bible can't get any clearer than this:

ROMANS: 1:18-26 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

(Be sure to note there is a huge difference between the terms amoral and immoral) To be amoral does not mean one is immoral. Amoral basically means there is no right or wrong morality ... each person must decide those things for themselves. Those who adopt this view usually have chosen to reject God and the Bible. At least verses like the one I have listed above and anything else that does not go along with what they decide they want to do. But unfortunately, many pick and choose and create their own belief system which includes the Bible when they agree with it, and discard what they don't like. In essence, they become the god of their own false religion and call it Christianity. Please make note, that I am not referring to my friend who sent me the above email, in this description.

My friend ended the conversation with: “This verse in Romans is pretty specific. Let me look a little more into it.”

So why do I bring this exchange to you? Because I think it clearly illustrates the challenges Christians face daily in today’s world. Some Christians, have chosen to ignore the verse above in Romans; and in a similar way, many have chosen to believe in the false religion of Darwinian Evolution, and many other false beliefs such as it doesn't matter which religion you follow as long as it teaches to love your fellow man. To stand with the clear truth of the Bible on this issue and many others, will often lead to you being branded a hateful bigot, and an ignorant fool. But in reality, it has nothing to do with hate, bigotry, or ignorance. It simply has to do with following the teaching of the inerrant Holy Truth of our Lord and Savior. I believe these conflicts we face are what Jesus was referring to when He said; ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ I am convinced that I can love people even though I do not agree with their lifestyle. The hate and bigotry typically is directed towards Christians ... from the same group that labels Christians, and turns their secular form of reverse discrimination towards the alienated traditional majority. Many who have been educated in our public school system would say that I am narrow, close-minded, legalistic, judgmental, not inclusive, and politically incorrect. For sure I have no desire to be politically correct. More recently I was told that I was brainwashed as a child, by my parents. When I explained to the person that my parents were not particularly religious, did not attend church regularly, or read the Bible; and that I became a Christian through my own study, twenty-nine years ago. He did not know what to say.

So my question is: … What do you say about these issues? Gays adopting? Gay marriage legalized? Is it possible to be a Christian homosexual? Should we be teaching our kids about homosexuality in our public schools?

“Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.
God Bless you my friends, Bob

Pray to receive Christ as Savior


  1. wow, this is quite a study. Thanks taking the time to share with us. Have a great weekend!

  2. Boy,you'll get some comments from this post, and if not,we'll just say I was wrong as usual.
    I think the bible is very clear on this, it is an abomiantion in the eyes of God, Leviticus,18:1-30,Leviticus,20:13. In the new testament, Romans,1:18-32. These are not my words,but God.
    We have come to the point that we just don't see sin as God see's it. The bible says that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is God, He changes not.
    God bless

  3. Dear Bob,

    You are a brave soul. I have a bit to say to you.

    Let me call to your remembrance the actual words of Jesus who said:

    MY, MY, MY own words, that I speak to you, while I live, they are the spirit, and they are the truth.

    You are made clean by MY words, that I have spoken to you.

    You are sanctified by MY, MY, MY, words.

    Jesus, the innocent one, who IS LIFE, did not address the issue of homosexuality, even once.

    Moses, a murderer, addressed homosexuality, and believed that homosexuals should be murdered.

    Paul, a murderer, a Pharisee, and disciple of Moses, addressed homosexuality, and believed that they were worthy of DEATH, i.e.being murdered.
    He also taught the WRATH of God, and the judgment of God against such.

    BUT JESUS, whose words are LIFE, and not death, SAID: My father judges no man. My father loves his enemies, and blesses those who curse him. WHOSOEVER, WHOSOEVER, believes in MY words, shall have everlasting life. He didn't qualify that. He neither taught the wrath of god against sinners, nor did he teach the judgment of god. He taught that god was love, and that perfect love, in god, is to love ones enemies.

    To a follower of Jesus Christ, he IS the WORDS of everlasting life. Moses is not. Paul is not. Neither of these is the Christ. And it is the words of Jesus, the Christ, by which all men will be judged in the last day.

    God is love. Children need love, and it is love that will turn the heart of a child to Christ, who is love, and to god, and nothing else.

    It is love that seeks and believes in Jesus who is love. Inasmuch as homosexual parents are capable of giving love, their children will be loving, and those who are loving, are disciples of Christ, and walk in his ways.

    Unfortunately, every homosexual I know, was raised by heterosexual parents who sexually abused them at a very young age, in the name of god. They were created by the very people who hate them the most.

  4. Dear Tonjia:

    Thanks for your input. Although an emotionally charged issue, one does not need to be a brave soul to discuss this one. We are called to stand on God’s truth? Romans 1:18-26 is not debatable. If you believe that the bad deeds of Moses and Paul prior to God moving on their lives, somehow made them not available for God to speak through them, and that their words recorded in the Bible are not actually Jesus Christ speaking through them, then you will have much to contend with on this blog. You have come to false conclusions here. If we followed your logic to its end, we would have to throw out all of the old and new testaments, because all of Jesus' words were recollections of men, and as a result, not reliable. God’s word is truth … all of the Bible is God's Word and is truth, or it is no more valuable than any other good book. Just more information. And quite honestly, I will never base my beliefs or stake my life on the Bible or any other teachings if it is only the opinions or recollections of men. For me it is either all the inspired Word of God or it is no better than a good personal development manual. C.S. Lewis said the same about Jesus: "He is either God or he is a lunatic" and one thing we know, Jesus was not just a good teacher. He is God!

    With all due respect, atheists also love their children, but though they may be loving towards their children from the world’s perspective, they are not Disciples of Christ, and not walking in his ways. Is it possible for a sexually active homosexual to also be a Christian? Contrary to the belief of many I greatly respect, I believe the answer is yes. Now ... that will likely get angry comments. I am also convinced that like many sincere heterosexuals, the guidance that these miss-guided believers are likely to give to their children may be loving them, but they would not be reflecting the love of Christ.

    Although your last point is sometimes true, many homosexuals were not sexually abused by their parents, or anyone else. They have chosen their lifestyle for a variety of reasons.

    Peace, Bob

  5. This is a great post and very solid in its conclusions.

    Tonjia, I'm afriad you have misunderstood Jesus' words. Jesus teaches his disciples and those listening to Him (us) to love our enemies and to bless those who curse us. These aren't teachings about God. We Christians are not perfect and so we are told to love those around
    us and to show them Jesus. God is love, yes, but love means he disciplines and judges (otherwise he would be apathetic and apathy does not show love), and as God is perfect he Judges and Disciplines perfectly.

    As to Jesus teaching about Judgement, Jesus says He is the vine and we are the branches and anyone who isn't part of Jesus will be cut off and thrown into a fire (John 15). He repeatedly talks about hell and judgement through Matthew 5-7 as well. He also said he came to fulfill the law of the prophets (i.e. Moses, Abraham etc) not to abolish it (Matthew 5) so to ignore Moses' teaching and the Old Testament is to ignore a large part of what Jesus taught (Jesus was a Jew after all). Please re-read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It is so important you don't see God as one who 'blesses his enemies'.

    Bob, thanks again for posting this. I love your response to the friend who thought you were indoctrinated. It is such a common view that Christians must not think for ourselves. It is so good to see someone being made to think for themselves.

    God bless,

  6. Life is a journey
    What you have gone through can help others
    Please share at WikiJourney